They have a new challenge out. But they won't debate any of us, they won't tell me what I caught if it wasn't COVID, and they won't fund a qualified scientist who accepted their challenge. Stunning.
All three believe themselves to be highly qualified for a debate.
Shall we use those 3?
I've asked for an initial meeting to ask some clarifying questions, but only one person responded and he can't do it until Friday because he needs to have an audience.
Steve, I realize how wacky the viruses-don't-exist arguments sounds at first. But their side has been very clear and very consistent with the claim: no virus has ever been isolated & characterized. It's not a point of debate, like building a case in court. It's something like: if I told you I was an apple-ologist, and I wasn't ever able to find an apple, despite years and years of study & research, but instead showed you apple-banana-milk sauce (and apple-meat pie, etc), at some point, you'd question my expertise on apples. It begs the question - if viruses can move from person to person and infect, why can't they be found?
Seriously....anything that claims to fact check is fraudulant.
This is not the manner in which mankind concludes what is most likely true and what is most like not true....furthermore you did not even fully read the fact check and all its links, had you done so common sense, logic, powers of deduction would have told you this is in fact not the isolation others are saying has not been performed.
Don't waste your time on this babble from Jeff. Most of the 20 minutes, he calls you and others stupid for questioning virology. Then he just continues to make more assumptions. Says what happens to viruses in the culture outside the body is what happens inside the body. HA! Assumptions. This has never been shown in the body. I still ask the same question, the theory is that people cough or sneeze, those droplets have viruses and that's how it spreads. However, the virologists can NEVER EVER find ANY virus in ANY of these droplets. Only after culture of monkey kidney cells, bovine serum, antibiotics and of course, trypsin, a protein digesting enzyme, will the magical unicorn viruses appear. Virology is fraud.
You can petulantly demand impossible criteria like "computers only use vacuum tubes and magnetic core memory - you haven't shown me the vacuum tubes operating in an actual computer, so you are not currently using a computer."
I've updated the article with two papers from Sin Lee and the "Sin Lee Challenge."
I've also added a debate challenge at the end. They won't debate us. I'm hoping there is someone who is qualified who will.
You REALLY have to be suspicious of their experiment which uses PCR *or* lateral flow assay to confirm their samples instead of Sanger sequencing. Why would they specify samples with an unreliable test? This sets it up from the start for unpredictable results. And how do we know each lab got the same samples?
They don't seem to be interested in meeting to DESIGN their challenge in an open public recorded forum. That's very troubling to me. Why didn't they ASK us to participate in the design of the challenge? And have all the discussion in an open public forum that is recorded?
I added the email I sent to Poornima Wagh. If she responds, I'll let you know what she said.
Steve, I think at this point it would be good for us all just to have an open discussion on this. I still don’t fully understand their side. Before we can have a debate we should fully understand what it is we are debating.
It seems like you know your stuff! Please fill out the debate form so I have your contact info and let's discuss it. Be sure to explain how Sin Lee was fooled. What was he sequencing?
I am sorry, I wouldn't waste my time debating you. It took me 30 seconds to figure out you must either be totally incapable of critical thought (our debate would therefore go no where) or you are lying to further an agenda. I am thankful for the wonderfully honest and intelligent team who will though. It's not this hard.
no it's not. anything can be questioned. We'd love to have a FAIR test. but their side didn't want to participate in JOINLY defining that. THAT is the problem.
It’s worked so well though. The West brims with a slim, fit, healthy populace. The bang for the buck is tremendous. And the freedom from the fear of disease and death… it permeates the land🙃
If you receive a positive test for 1 respiratory virus, how does this in any way negate the possibility (and high likelihood) that you are coincidentally infected with hundreds of other viruses in a degree of rank order significance? How does it even negate the possibility that your symptoms are as a result of the sum total of the non-tested-for viruses in your body? Even if the 1 virus detected was rank order 1 of significance, the impacts of all other non-detected viruses could have a higher total impact on your health, provided their total was more than that of the rank order 1 virus.
Let’s assume that the partial genetic sequence provided by China is indicative of the presence of a new virus. Do you believe that the human body then only holds this virus and no others? Obviously not. However, if you believe that the body holds other viruses, but that their sum total is dwarfed by the presence of viruses with the partial genetic sequence provided by China (i.e. SARS-CoV-2), then on what scientific basis do you make this claim?
My point is that it’s not even disputed that hundreds of viruses are always in circulation - in constant flux, in various degrees of mutation, and each completely opportunistic in nature. So not only is it possible, but it *rates to be the case* that these many other viruses have a total health impact higher than that of any 1 detected virus.
Let me give you an example to think about. Suppose a carcass is lying on the side of the road. Suppose further, that after extensive testing you could determine that one particular type of ant (with a specific genetic sequence) was consuming the carcass. Would this test say anything about the total consumption by all other (i.e. non this-particular-ant-type) organisms which were consuming this carcass?
I suggest that not only does it not say anything - but that the total consumption by all other organisms (ant-types and non ant-types) rates to be significantly higher than that of any 1 specific detected ant-type.
Ok. Now, the CDC supposedly does “surveillance” to determine the most prevalent sub-types of respiratory viruses in circulation (by genetic sequence). But isn’t this entire concept childish? In what scientific manner have they shown that any 1 detected virus has even close to the impact of the total of all other non-detected viruses?
A simple thought experiment shows how crucial this point is: Suppose virus A is measured in a human to be 10x more prevalent than virus B. Further, assume there are 100 other non-detected viruses present each with similar quantities to virus B. Then these 100 other viruses would have a sum total 10x that of virus A.
It could still be that viruses don't exist, but a PCR test was purposely designed to detect some foreign pathogen (likely manmade) that is making us sick.
I tend to believe Dr. David Martin who has a number of patents proving the designing of this pathogen (so-called virus). It could still be completely believable to me that viruses don't exist, but something does whose test yields positive results in those affected with whatever it is.
PCR detects short strings of genetic material. That's it. The "pathogen" part is purely hypothetical aka they exist only on the computer and in the mind of the "virologist."
Indeed. I thought of it based on pure logic. The beauty of my argument is that it doesn’t even rely on 1) disproving the existence of viruses or 2) disproving the existence of any particular virus. Rather, it just says that if viruses exist, there is no way to quantify the impact of the sum total of all non-detected viruses in the human body at any given time. The entire concept that a positive test for any one virus means it’s the only one of health impact significance is completely childish.
A simple thought experiment shows how crucial this point is: Suppose virus A is measured in a human to be 10x more prevalent than virus B. Further, assume there are 100 other non-detected viruses present each with similar quantities to virus B. Then these 100 other viruses would have a sum total 10x that of virus A.
Did you know there was a fake whooping cough epidemic already?
Which was based on... PCR tests?
Our luck was that there was another test available, considered gold standard, which proved that PCR test was meaningless.
Otherwise, we would have lived in perpetual fear of whooping cough, and a global pandemic would have been declared already (sounds familiar)?
Quote:
"Not a single case of whooping cough was confirmed with the definitive test, growing the bacterium, Bordetella pertussis, in the laboratory. Instead, it appears the health care workers probably were afflicted with ordinary respiratory diseases like the common cold."
That's what happens when you don't have a proper test available, and you rely on PCR.
Read this post, you might learn a thing or two about our history with epidemics:
And it's well documented in mainstream media as well, it's not a 'conspiracy theory', like the sheep like to call everything that oppose their pre-established ideas..
I'm inclined to believe that you are either part of controlled opposition, or you don't like to admit you are wrong about PCR tests and viruses in general, and recourse to confirmation bias and logical fallacies to maintain your position.
I will gladly debate you on this topic - me being another IT guy, like you, with no formal training in microbiology or virology.
And I will do it for free, at a time of your convenience.
hey Steve...are you giving us references to the same "scientists" that suckered you into getting vaxxed? the vax that you are now exposing as a life threatening hoax...asking for a friend
But there is a "well-defined genome." Actually, there are hundreds of different ones that claim to be 'real.' Take your pick. Too much is fishy about Steve's claims.
I agree. The debate is going to be a total fiasco and both sides are going to accomplish one thing only: they are going to discredit themselves further in the eyes of public opinion. And that's what the Vaccine Nazis would love.
You and Kevin could fund this easily- for you and he that would be drop in the bucket- not even that.
For the others not so much.
You offer a million for this and million for that in your various challenges so certainly you have some spare change to fund this. I believe you are using that as an excuse to run away from this discussion.
You also have a vested ideological interest in maintaining this "theory" and Kevin's entire career is held within it. Not exactly objective, curious bystanders interested in pure scientific discussion.
Two things stand out here- one is that your derision and snide hostility about this is palpable and you might consider that the "offical Covid" establishment considers you quite disdainfully. Remember "do unto others?"
Secondly, what is with the cheap shots? Why do you feel so threatened by this?
Were you there through the AIDS discussions in the 90's- 2000' etc? No you were not.
That's fine but guess what. Those who were contending that AIDS was not caused by some virus were widely ridiculed and had their careers ruined in many cases. Plus ca change. Guess who was right all along?
You seem like someone who is too stubborn and has too much ego involved to reflect on that and even entertain the possibility that just maybe we are in a parallel situation.
Er, McCairn could not fund these experiments at all as is out of scientific work due to injury. I know very little about science but have been following him long enough to know his provenance and character.
I'm not interested in Kevin's or Steves' or Tom's or Sam's or....anyones supposed character.
I'm only interested in the open, honest discussion (which BTW as others agree on is not the primary discussion given the crimes being committed) and above board representation of the situation.
I have respect for some of what Steve does but this is a series of cheap shots and misrepresentations. He is being dishonest in much of what he is saying.
Notice I never presuppose Kevin is in agreement with Steve's characterization of the situation.
It would be an easy discussion to have on any Thursday over at VSRF. Far more interesting than Alex Berenson. He'll make excuses as to why he won't do it.
If Steve is interested in examining some "questionable" motives or characters how about Robert Malone and Corbevax vaccine (which we know has caused damage) and maybe his ties to US intelligence. I'm not even saying that is worthwhile but certainly far more honorable than his attacks here.
Now let's keep in mind through all of this that it was Steve who opened up the can of worms.
If you want to register to do the debate the instructions are in the article and we can hash it all out. You just have to explain Sin Lee's challenge and you're in. Simple.
Steve, your debate ends with two questions, i.e., how has been an alleged bio virus separated from everything else for verification purposes or how a direct real time observation of all vital occurring processes with an alleged bio virus has been done?
Did you even read what I wrote? I understand you have a lot happening as we all do and perhaps read things hastily so let me be clear here.
I am opening up the discussion/debate on the notion of there being a legitimate "pandemic" (epidemiological emergency) in 2020- not the germ theory/terrain theory discussion. I am not scientifically qualified for that discussion nor are you.
I am eminently qualified to have the discussion/debate on the particulars of "Covid Pandemic" of 2020.
This is not some side discussion- this is the whole ball game.
My position is clear- there was no pandemic of any sort anyhwere in the world in 2020. I can illustrate that through copious data which is irrefutable. Through this I will also show that massive fraud was involved in creating the perception that there was an epidemiological emergency in 2020.
The people that needs to see the statistics and data for this do not want to. They have closed their eyes. They have come to realise that they took a dangerous shot for something that did not exist in the first place and that they played along with the FEARmongering. That is hard to swallow and to admit.
And if you make money on pursuing the ‘virus’ narrative even though you have called out the hoax of the experimental injections means that it will take a lot to confirm the non existence of contagion.
are CLAIMING to fight various "countermeasures" (Mandates, Masks, Social Distancing, Lockdowns, Vaccines, etc), in the courts, selling books, selling tickets to various "Crimes Against Humanity, World Tours" (yes, more than one)...
#TeamNoVirus is working on ROOT CAUSES.
If we do not address the CORE FRAUD of this hoax narrative, then I fear we will keep battling endless fake pandemics and fake countermeasures (themselves deadly) forever.
Not at this point Bill- at least not with the majority of people.
Here's how I see it.
We live in a house that has a shitty foundation that needs fixing. We're arguing about how to fix it what are the problems etc. The house catches fire due to arson. What we need to do is put out the fire in the immediate.
This doesn't change the fact that fundamentally we still live in a house with a flawed foundation and once the fire is put out that needs to be addressed.
In our real world situation both facets of the discussion can and should happen concurrently in my view.
I get what you are saying completely. I do know from experience that I can convince many people that the "pandemic" story is a fraud. Once you get them there then you can ask those next questions.
That's exactly what you are doing, fighting endless fires. Busy work until you address root causes.
> I can convince many people that the "pandemic" story is a fraud
Without addressing the FOUNDATIONAL CORE FRAUD, the story of "the virus"? Good luck with that.
Most of the big names like Bigtree, RFK, Fuellmich, Kory, Mercola, Mikovits, Alexander, Bridle, Malone, McCullough, etc etc ad nauseum 🤢🤮 are PROMOTING THE CORE LIE!!!
That MAY BE a great strategy for selling endless books and legal services, but it is overall a LOSING STRATEGY.
If what I wrote to you is 'essay length' in your world please stick to TikTok or other mind numbing social media that doesn't tax your brain beyond 132 characters.
A million dollars is a drop in the bucket for Elon Musk, not for me.
It's a flawed experiment as I pointed out in the article. They have not thought it through.
I don't feel threatened at all. THEY WILL NOT DEBATE US. They won't even have a meeting to discuss the challenge. Kevin accepted but they won't talk to him.
If Poornima Wagh wants to debate us or anyone with similar credentials, we'll set it up.
Steve, Dr Tom Cowan has publicly stated on his site that he's very open to proposals from your side on how to redesign the experiments. No need for debate. Simply propose your own design with proper controls. This is certainly a reasonable position. It would be helpful to drop the "I'm right and who the hell are these guys anyway?" attitude and focus entirely on getting the science right. The simple reality is no virus has ever been found in the bodily fluids of any sick person. We now need to determine if that is because of flaws in approach or perhaps (drum roll) the true cause of disease isn't a virus! Either way involving our egos in the discussion is a nonhelpful distraction.
You consistently speak about your exchanges with Christine Massey and then conflate those exchanges to the rest of the people you cite. Very dishonest.
Did these other people say to you- "Christine Massey" is our "team leader" and she speaks for us.
No of course they did not. So why do you keep doing this? And what's up with the cheap shots?
Further, she is one of the least qualified of those involved to discuss this topic.
Steve you are a relative newcomer to these disucssions and to these medical Ponzi scams. You might try a little humility here and learn from others. You might also start learning some history about these matters which you are painfully ignorant about.
In both those cases I'm not even speaking about Terrain v. Germ Theory.
So Steve- do you think there was an actual viral pandemic in 2020?
My guess is that you won't even answer this question- hope to be wrong.
Allen, the proof is very clear that certainly this is indeed was a scamdemic very well planned and executed. Fake videos out of Wuhan with "crisis actors" who reappear etc, denying the elderly in nursing homes any type of sustenance as a rationale to put them down with midazolam (a lethal sedative) etc.
Later on a highly pathnogenic spike protein was released in a number of different ways possibly through flu vaccines for example.. This spike was a well designed slow kill bioweapon.
The evidence of a chimeric virus with a spike protein is very strong. That does not mean it was deployed early. You only have to look at the work of Ralph Baric or Dr. Li Meng Yan's articles to know the truth.
The point is the genesis of the scamdemic and where we are now are two completely different subjects.
My name is Patrick Gunnels. I am a 2 year student of Drs Kaufman, Cowan, Bailey, Vollmer, et al. I have a show called Reading Epic Threads and I would be happy to debate you and your team of experts any time, any place, and I will get out of bed to do it if it's late notice in the middle of the night. Please reach out to me at pgunnels@gmail.com.
Tom- There was no excess mortality in 2020 which was the first full year of the so called pandemic. Excess mortality only began in 2021 coinciding with the rollout of the mRNA injections. Haiti and most African states reported almost no incidence of COVID-19. Interesting that the vaccine take up in these places was among the lowest in the world.
This is an epidemiological observation. Such observations are used to generate hypotheses, not conclusions. Also, these statistics are literally made up.
There were excess deaths in 2020 and 2021 in the US.
Right around 420,000 in 2020 and 470,000 in 2021. I have the exact figures elsewhere.
None of this was caused by an unusual viral event.
It was all caused by iatrogenic events, consequences of lockdowns and compounded by an experiemental mass inoculation program that is poisoning people.
We will also have excess deaths in 2022.
Two interesting notes. The 6 week peak in March/April 2020 ("The Pandemic") would not even register if we remove 8 states from the mortality equation. We must assume that this virus understands borders.
These 8 states all mandated the exact same policies regarding hospitals, hospice, nursing homes, care dentrs etc. The average age of death during this "peak" was a little over 80 years old. Not too diffciult to figure out what happened here.
Also interesting is that the largest single period of excess mortality WAS NOT that 6 week period but was the 8 week period spanning the end of 2020 and early 2021. This 8 week period accounted for a full 20% of the excess deaths over these two years.
A unique medical intervention occurred leading into that period.
i asked Dr Yeadon about his take on Germ Theory a few hours ago after i reviewed a video link he posted of himself being interviewed, and he mentioned but didn't address gem theory by the end of the vid... and this was his reply...
thanks Hawk700s! incredibly interesting!!! ty for sharing this link!!! it's from June, but just posted yesterday?
anyway... I'd start at 1 hour 40 minutes... they have a miscoscopic view of a coronavirus!!! ??? looks just as well defined as the bacteria that were easily visible under a standard microscope in '00's when i was in school... watching more... from Dr Richard Fleming... sorry if this isn't new to you, Steve...?
Having followed these clowns for a few years now, it is obvious they are not serious at letting the science find the truth. It's all about feeding their egos with all the attention they have gotten from way, way too many gullible people. It is also more than slightly likely, they are allowed the freedom on the internet to continue this clown show because it distracts from the lab-origin of the virus and all the implications of bio-warfare being used as a soft-kill global "reset" weapon.
Show me a research done with any alleged bio virus by direct real time observation of all vital occurring processes with it or by experimentation on any alleged bio virus as an independent variable.
Propaganda is the nuclear weapon we face. They want the masses to freely walk to their enslavement and death. Only the idea of the virus is needed. Steve demonstrates that. He freely took the injection.
Steve, what use is a debate. That would solve nothing. The disagreement is on the process. Why don't you help set this scientific experiment in motion? Samples from sick people sent to 5 labs. No labs know the other lab. With the same disease from the same person, all 5 labs should find the same virus. Why is this so controversial and divisive. Seems it would settle things. I would also like a video crew in each lab documenting the steps. This would pull back the secret curtain and let people see the process.
Better yet, set up a blind blood draw of vaxxed people and run the micro clot tests (d-Dimer, CRP) and the immune system tests (DC8, DC4) TO validate the immune system destruction.
Do the statistics vs UnVaxxed and cohort analysis vs normal ranges.
Show people proactively in real time their damaged body from the Jabs.
It wont settle things because these folks aren't serious about finding the truth. Listening to Tom Cowan for more than five minutes guarantees you have damaged your brain cells.
I need less than 30 minutes to destroy anyone in a debate to prove that alleged bio viruses have never been proven by direct real time observation of all vital occurring processes with them or experimentation on them as independent variables.
Huh, I like Cowan. Then again I’m a 60 year old who has never had any medical intervention as an adult. Some of us think health should be the focus, not disease.
Seems you are angry at Tom. Not sure why. But would make a good debater for that side. But you can still be wrong. That’s why science is about proof. Not opinion or consensus. People like Tom are saying the process is faulty. His proposed experiment would answer many question. Let’s do science.
Are you kidding me? Science? Explain to us why they said they want to certify the samples with PCR *OR* the even MORE inaccurate lateral flow assay. Why not specify Sanger sequencing? And *THEY* supply the samples??!!? That's trustable. You think that is SCIENCE?
If you bothered to actually read the challenge or watch the video discussing this further - THEY ARE WILLING TO MEET YOU HALFWAY. Because they already know NO VIROLOGIST currently follows the CORRECT methods (Kochs or Rivers postulates - they dont even satisfy step 1).
they say in the video between Cowan and Bailey that this was a compromise meeting the virologists on their own terms as they (virologists) will not question their own techniques re isolation. This is why PCR is suggested. Because this is the main tool underpinning the fake pandemic and is accepted by mainstream virology as valid. Cowan and Bailey also say they welcome critique on their outlined challenge. Why not provide them your advice on how this challenge can be sured up and made less arguable. Instead of doing comments for click bait.
Because the virologist don’t currently use Sanger sequencing. They only use the computer generated sequence. I’m sure Tom would love to use Sanger. Instead of bickering, let’s get the experiment done. All 5 labs should come up with the same genetic sequence no matter what method they use. Tom said PCR because that’s what they currently do. Meeting them on their territory so to speak.
This is a really cheap, unfounded and totally irrelevant claim.
Just because Steve is well off, it doesn't mean he has joined the dark side of globalists. He has been fighting the vaccination agenda like none I know using his own resources and time. He has been vindicated many times.
Just because he disagrees with your views, throwing mud at him, instead of debating him and his side, shows you are not worthy of his time.
You clearly don't understand how science works and what Steve attempts to accomplish...
So your proof is, I got sick so it must be covid because two other people had it that
I came in contact with so that must prove it was covid. If it wasn't covid then what was it?
Then you say because they won't debate you or pay for someone else to try to prove viruses exist that they must be wrong.
How about you going to the book Virus Mania, sight a few of the books reported findings, and give your reason why they're wrong?
It's interesting that there is literally billions of dollars of funds, both government and special interest, going for the solution to something yet there's no real scientific proof using the scientific method to prove it exist.
In the meantime millions of people are dying around the world from the mRNA blood clotting concoction injections!
Steve when your sick why does it have to be a virus at all ? I thought they were out there too til I got off my arse and read Steffan Lanka, Dr Cowan, Dr Kaufman, Dr Harmer NGM, ....it's all occult witchcraft not even proper Pagan witchcraft cos they were real why...Christian Priests don't like God market çompetition. Just flex your brain and get outta the pharma monkey tissue DNA, human cell, bovine soup for a tick.....and breath new light into the old consciousness.....cos viral madness is over. At least for me it is.
Steve, I have just seen this, not read all of it, just the gist, so forgive me if this reply is not what you're looking for. As is often the case, one side is talking apples, the other is talking oranges. I think Sam Bailey et al realise this, and are hesitant to debate with you because they're not sure how to reconcile the two. After much, much reading and listening, I do not believe that a pathogenic piece of DNA is invading our cells and replicating itself to create the symptoms of Covid-19. I have written about this here: https://linlaz.substack.com/p/positive-covid-test-what-does-it. I have also made some comments about the difference between "Covid" symptoms and normal flu in this article: https://linlaz.substack.com/i/81545801/but-why-the-pandemic. I do hope this goes some way towards answering your questions. I am sorry you and your wife were sick, but I would urge you to remember that you may have been exposed to a toxin at the same time, which might appear to be an infection. The body's reaction is the same. I'm happy to debate with you further by email. With good wishes for your work, Linda.
Let's go back to basics, 1) use Koch's postulate to identify that a virus exists that causes an illness. 2) Identify a unique test that can detect the unique virus in a person's cells in their respiratory system, nasal cavity etc. 3) Isolate the unique virus in people who demonstrate severe symptoms. 4) replicate the virus and infect other people. 5) Determine if the virus is external and aerosolized and transmitted thought air into another persons respiratory mystery system resulting in infection? 6) Determine if the "virus" is an internal expression of cellular garbage in response to toxicity, e.g. 5g or other influence?
I can't speak for your 'opponents' but there are some issues with your commentary. First, no practitioner or researcher will or should comment on a personal and unknown case of anything. Second, the PCR tests are fraudulent. You should know the very 'inventor' of that test stated emphatically it was not to be used for diagnosis. Third, its use has been used in an unethical manner to create the illusion of massive illness when there was little to be found in reality. They did this by up cycling cell fragments excessively till they found a fragment of a something and they named it without any real identification. The list of aberrations in the narrative is quite long. But one thing that really stands out is that no one have been able to produce or replicate such a microbe. Even Fauci told requesting researchers he had no samples of the 'virus/' No one in t he world had any. From the very beginning the Koch principles were not met and Fauci's solution was to trash those standards which have formed the basis for science since the late 19c. This is fraudulent in its own right. So my problem with your challenge and criticism of others who won't step up to your plate is that so much of what you claim is blatantly questionable in light of all we know from so many sources. One of those sources is the CDC VAERS data base itself which show the vaccinated much more susceptible to being seriously ill. And those dying are not particularly treated well nor are their deaths honestly listed. And that problem is a whole chapter in itself.
Perhaps a better avenue is to find the points of concurrence and work to build a coalition that will challenge the aberrations of a system controlled by big money and that pushes people into a state of co-dependency and bodily enslavement against personal interest.
100 years of observations' and 'This is not how science works. In science you collect data and you figure out which hypothesis best fits the data'!!!
this is hilarious.
You do not design the hypothesis to fit the observation. You design the experiment to disprove your hypothesis. If it still holds you do another one.
I could make up all sorts that would fit the data. Until I do experiments and not rely on 100 years of observing things I won't know if they are valid.
Kind of like the democrats. They'll find someone they dislike or feel threatened by, then change definitions, words, phish to get a crime to fit their narrative.
People aren't getting Covid-19. They are getting the flu/pneumonia or another type of coronavirus (Sars, Mers, etc). This is how they deceived people that Covid-19 exists. If the media and public health officials have lied about everything else they are lying about this. Plus, the fraudulent and meaningless pcr and antigen tests also prove it doesn't exist. FDA documents from 2020 prove it doesn't exist. Everything being ruled as Covid-19 by the CDC is proof it doesn't exist. Yes, there are viruses circulating. In fact, the human body is never absent of viruses. They are allies and because we have viruses living in or on our bodies is another reason people have been duped that covid-19 exists. Lastly, viruses don't make one sick. It is poor diet, poor lifestyle choices, and enviromental toxins that cause dieseae. It is all the fake foods (gmos and proceed foods), vaccines, medications, personal care and cleaning products that we are putting in and on our bodies that are making us sick. Lean into terrain theory and trust God's design for your health.
As with most debates I think the answer lies in between. Like the intelligent design versus evolution debate I believe they are both right and both wrong.
I am no specialist but have had a life full of things considered rare in the allopathic system. I had to learn health from scratch by abandoning all prior knowledge and learning by observation and experience because what the allopathic system was telling me did not add up. I’ve spent many decades on this.
I believe viruses exist but I don’t believe they are directly responsible for severe illness and death.
What I have observed is that the virus is the trigger and just how insects always attack unhealthy plants first it’s the same with a virus.
I am hypersensitive to many metals and have had adverse events to two spinal implants, bone cement, amalgam fillings and glass ionomer fillings, the mercury in tuna, the titanium dioxide in food, the aluminium in antiperspirant to name a few.
Our body has trouble breaking down metals and they build up causing a toxic load.
We may feel health and fine but I believe when we get a virus it triggers the immune system into hard detox mode to expel the virus. But in the process the body also tries expelling the built up toxic load. It moves it through the organs and causes severe illness and death.
The symptoms of metal toxicity are the same as a respiratory virus.
If we do not have a type 4 allergy to the metals in our toxic load and have a low toxic load we will get mild or no symptoms from covid like most people.
If we do not have a type 4 allergy to the metals in our toxic load but have a high toxic load we will get bad symptoms from covid
If we DO have a type 4 allergy to the metals in our toxic load we will get severe symptoms from covid and could die.
So the virus is the trigger but the symptoms are an indication of our toxic load and our hypersensitivity to the metals in it. It’s our response to the metals in our toxic load that causes the range of symptoms not the virus.
During the plague it was noticed that onion farmers and their families never got the plague. I think they did but due to having a diet high in onions they showed no symptoms as they had a very low toxic load as eating onions daily will detoxify the body.
Without the SARS-Cov-2 Steve's whole narrative of debunking stats would fall flat on it's face and Steve's subscriptions would be decimated.
Simple conclusion: Steve 24/7/365 job of debunking stats would fail to exist without SARS-Cov-2.
Why when I subscribe to Steve's subscription am I taken to a Twitter link to spread the word? Why isn't Steve banned from Twitter and YouTube like all the others spreaders of disinformation?
Then Steve changes his narrative and puts up a high stakes wager that his narrative exist. (Mmm... Most definitely controlled opposition.) Why start shooting down the people that are on his side? That's reverse psy-ops: Infiltrate the enemy and then start taking them out with high stakes wagers Oligarchs fuckery!
Steve Kirsch is most definitely paid off controlled opposition funded by clandestine deepstate backers that are untraceable. Meaning Steve is CIA or as connections with the deepstate oligarchs. Its very suspicious how Steve puts up absurds amount of money to back up SARS-Cov-2 exist. It's like the fella is trying to price out oppostion by overinflating the stakes. Why not have a free wager and shake hands then have a debate Steve?
One question I would have is... If I believe Steve is a shill for the oligarchs how do I know that the so called independent board of judges are don't paid off on the incognito tip? Is Steve going to pull them from a hat? I very much doubt it. These judges will have to be highly educated academics with an unbias view on SARS-Cov-2. How can these judges have an unbias view on SARS-Cov-2? It's virtually impossible to be unbias. You're either a believer or a non-believer. It's really is that simple.
If Steve with his vast amounts of money could buy purificated and isolated SARS-Cov-2 viruses like his friends and give them to human test subjects and see if these test subjects become ill with the virus symptoms he believes exist. And then he is able to extract that exact virus from the test subject and give it to another human who has the same symptoms and then convince me that it was actually the virus that made the test subjects unwell then I will believe him. Could I please also look at this so called phantom virus under an electron microscope that he will extracted from a human patient?
What Steve fails to acknowledge is that there's a massive difference between the virus he claims exist naturally and the one that was patented and made and originated in a biolab in Wuhan. If Steve believes the Wuhan theory; wouldn't that make Steve's virus a patented bioweapon and not an original virus created from nature? If that's not the case then why does the virus have DNA matches that are patented to Pfizer? I know why, but can Steve please explain to me why? I thought all viruses were created naturally? I thought biowesoon were made unnaturally? Please don't get to techinal and talk about DNA-direct patterning and playing God, because playing God is not a natural occurrence. Please tell me Steve how come they couldn't find the original source of the virus from nature? That Chris Matersion, PHD from Peak Prosperity brilliantly debunked. You posted his video link in your email. Like you Chris believes the virus is a bioweapon with a patented sequence which belongs to Pfizer.
Now if I critically free think about all of the above and go deep. I challenge Steve to prove he is not controlled opposition, deepstate and I also challenge Steve to show me one viable natural SARS-Cov-2 occurring virus that isn't a bioweapon, which makes people unwell
I for one am stunned at the simple argument “what made me sick that showed positive on antigen tests?” Are you kidding? We all know the tests don’t even differentiate between flu and common cold, which btw is a form of Covid right? So I have heard. So his lame argument on this one threw me and made me think like you…what is really up with this Kat? A good guy or a schill? Not sure now. Acting like the only thing the antigen test could have shown positive for was Covid? As if they are even 50% reliable in the first place or testing for any one thing. As if. Plaseeease. Truth is. If everyone would just quit testing already life could go back to normal - sort of. Except for world economic forum, George soros and who, China, Iran, Russia, Ukrainian, the global economic depression and all that. Lol
She may have a couple of PhD's but after watching her 1hr 20minute video interview she is talking absolute nonsense.
She wants her 15 minutes of fame and has joined the other disgraced malcontents Lanka, Kaufman, Cowan, Bailey et al to try to make a name for herself in the alternative media.
Nearly everything she said has been totally debunked.
Yes SARS-CoV-2 was blown out of all proportion and was probably a conspiracy to deceive for nefarious means but what she says about viruses is laughable.
The “toxic soup” she refers to is in fact nutrients that scientists always use to keep the human cells alive.
Viruses are a parasitic entity and can only survive on living cells.
It is likely she allowed the 1500 cell samples she had from Covid patients to die if she didn’t, by her own admission, add nutrients.
This is why she couldn’t find any virus after filtration and centrifuge and didn’t see any infection in the ferrets she injected.
Instead of almost 3,000 comments, why don't you all agree on the 3 people to represent the opposition, and we'll debate those 3 people.
Only 3 people were willing to debate.
They are all listed here: https://airtable.com/shrSEEbWS3aadecYs
All three believe themselves to be highly qualified for a debate.
Shall we use those 3?
I've asked for an initial meeting to ask some clarifying questions, but only one person responded and he can't do it until Friday because he needs to have an audience.
That's how science works.
Read my comment Steve. I've got questions I would like you to answer.
Steve, I realize how wacky the viruses-don't-exist arguments sounds at first. But their side has been very clear and very consistent with the claim: no virus has ever been isolated & characterized. It's not a point of debate, like building a case in court. It's something like: if I told you I was an apple-ologist, and I wasn't ever able to find an apple, despite years and years of study & research, but instead showed you apple-banana-milk sauce (and apple-meat pie, etc), at some point, you'd question my expertise on apples. It begs the question - if viruses can move from person to person and infect, why can't they be found?
One of his videos:
https://rumble.com/v13klpo-dr-tom-cowan-challenges-some-of-dr-judy-mikovits-claims-about-viruses.html
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-rna/fact-check-sars-cov-2-has-been-isolated-and-its-complete-genome-has-been-sequenced-idUSL1N2LS27P&ved=2ahUKEwjdopP29dT5AhWXg2oFHdZzDzUQFnoECBsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0xqqHNLx1lcrHrICeqLoCe
Seriously....anything that claims to fact check is fraudulant.
This is not the manner in which mankind concludes what is most likely true and what is most like not true....furthermore you did not even fully read the fact check and all its links, had you done so common sense, logic, powers of deduction would have told you this is in fact not the isolation others are saying has not been performed.
Steve, I thought you might be interested in my response to this challenge:
https://jeffgreenhealth.substack.com/p/jeff-green-addressing-the-no-virus
Don't waste your time on this babble from Jeff. Most of the 20 minutes, he calls you and others stupid for questioning virology. Then he just continues to make more assumptions. Says what happens to viruses in the culture outside the body is what happens inside the body. HA! Assumptions. This has never been shown in the body. I still ask the same question, the theory is that people cough or sneeze, those droplets have viruses and that's how it spreads. However, the virologists can NEVER EVER find ANY virus in ANY of these droplets. Only after culture of monkey kidney cells, bovine serum, antibiotics and of course, trypsin, a protein digesting enzyme, will the magical unicorn viruses appear. Virology is fraud.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-rna/fact-check-sars-cov-2-has-been-isolated-and-its-complete-genome-has-been-sequenced-idUSL1N2LS27P&ved=2ahUKEwjdopP29dT5AhWXg2oFHdZzDzUQFnoECBsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0xqqHNLx1lcrHrICeqLoCe
You can petulantly demand impossible criteria like "computers only use vacuum tubes and magnetic core memory - you haven't shown me the vacuum tubes operating in an actual computer, so you are not currently using a computer."
3-3!
Who’s the we on your side? Aren’t debates usually 3 on 3? Why limit to 1 person. Steve’s rules?
I vote 3-3. But if have to compromise then 2 on 2 at least. No one person can have all the knowledge in their head. Usually why debates are 3-3.
perfect!!
Shall we just pick the only 3 that applied to debate?
I think that would be great!
perfect. I'll wait to hear from others.
see my other pinned comment.
I've updated the article with two papers from Sin Lee and the "Sin Lee Challenge."
I've also added a debate challenge at the end. They won't debate us. I'm hoping there is someone who is qualified who will.
You REALLY have to be suspicious of their experiment which uses PCR *or* lateral flow assay to confirm their samples instead of Sanger sequencing. Why would they specify samples with an unreliable test? This sets it up from the start for unpredictable results. And how do we know each lab got the same samples?
They don't seem to be interested in meeting to DESIGN their challenge in an open public recorded forum. That's very troubling to me. Why didn't they ASK us to participate in the design of the challenge? And have all the discussion in an open public forum that is recorded?
I added the email I sent to Poornima Wagh. If she responds, I'll let you know what she said.
Steve, I think at this point it would be good for us all just to have an open discussion on this. I still don’t fully understand their side. Before we can have a debate we should fully understand what it is we are debating.
that's the point of my meeting on friday with them.
Steve, it does not matter what method you use for getting readings because no one has proven what nucleic acids really are and how they occur.
Shame on you Steve! Shame shame shame on you.
It seems like you know your stuff! Please fill out the debate form so I have your contact info and let's discuss it. Be sure to explain how Sin Lee was fooled. What was he sequencing?
I am sorry, I wouldn't waste my time debating you. It took me 30 seconds to figure out you must either be totally incapable of critical thought (our debate would therefore go no where) or you are lying to further an agenda. I am thankful for the wonderfully honest and intelligent team who will though. It's not this hard.
Was he sequencing or he was getting readings?
Has he directly observed in real time occurring processes?
Has anyone proven what substance which is declared as nucleic acids really is and how it occurs?
Irrelevant 100%
Virology is a dogma that can't be questioned
no it's not. anything can be questioned. We'd love to have a FAIR test. but their side didn't want to participate in JOINLY defining that. THAT is the problem.
Steve, stop clowning around. Who does not want to participate?
It’s worked so well though. The West brims with a slim, fit, healthy populace. The bang for the buck is tremendous. And the freedom from the fear of disease and death… it permeates the land🙃
Steve,
If you receive a positive test for 1 respiratory virus, how does this in any way negate the possibility (and high likelihood) that you are coincidentally infected with hundreds of other viruses in a degree of rank order significance? How does it even negate the possibility that your symptoms are as a result of the sum total of the non-tested-for viruses in your body? Even if the 1 virus detected was rank order 1 of significance, the impacts of all other non-detected viruses could have a higher total impact on your health, provided their total was more than that of the rank order 1 virus.
Let’s assume that the partial genetic sequence provided by China is indicative of the presence of a new virus. Do you believe that the human body then only holds this virus and no others? Obviously not. However, if you believe that the body holds other viruses, but that their sum total is dwarfed by the presence of viruses with the partial genetic sequence provided by China (i.e. SARS-CoV-2), then on what scientific basis do you make this claim?
it doesn't negate it. and it doesn't matter. the antigen tests are supposed to be very specific to this virus.
If they aren't, then please show me the proof of that with any of the antigen tests and reference samples from ATCC or others.
Why isn't anyone doing that?
You can't have a test for something you can't observe or isolate.
Steve,
My point is that it’s not even disputed that hundreds of viruses are always in circulation - in constant flux, in various degrees of mutation, and each completely opportunistic in nature. So not only is it possible, but it *rates to be the case* that these many other viruses have a total health impact higher than that of any 1 detected virus.
Let me give you an example to think about. Suppose a carcass is lying on the side of the road. Suppose further, that after extensive testing you could determine that one particular type of ant (with a specific genetic sequence) was consuming the carcass. Would this test say anything about the total consumption by all other (i.e. non this-particular-ant-type) organisms which were consuming this carcass?
I suggest that not only does it not say anything - but that the total consumption by all other organisms (ant-types and non ant-types) rates to be significantly higher than that of any 1 specific detected ant-type.
Ok. Now, the CDC supposedly does “surveillance” to determine the most prevalent sub-types of respiratory viruses in circulation (by genetic sequence). But isn’t this entire concept childish? In what scientific manner have they shown that any 1 detected virus has even close to the impact of the total of all other non-detected viruses?
A simple thought experiment shows how crucial this point is: Suppose virus A is measured in a human to be 10x more prevalent than virus B. Further, assume there are 100 other non-detected viruses present each with similar quantities to virus B. Then these 100 other viruses would have a sum total 10x that of virus A.
It could still be that viruses don't exist, but a PCR test was purposely designed to detect some foreign pathogen (likely manmade) that is making us sick.
I tend to believe Dr. David Martin who has a number of patents proving the designing of this pathogen (so-called virus). It could still be completely believable to me that viruses don't exist, but something does whose test yields positive results in those affected with whatever it is.
PCR detects short strings of genetic material. That's it. The "pathogen" part is purely hypothetical aka they exist only on the computer and in the mind of the "virologist."
This is interesting.
Indeed. I thought of it based on pure logic. The beauty of my argument is that it doesn’t even rely on 1) disproving the existence of viruses or 2) disproving the existence of any particular virus. Rather, it just says that if viruses exist, there is no way to quantify the impact of the sum total of all non-detected viruses in the human body at any given time. The entire concept that a positive test for any one virus means it’s the only one of health impact significance is completely childish.
A simple thought experiment shows how crucial this point is: Suppose virus A is measured in a human to be 10x more prevalent than virus B. Further, assume there are 100 other non-detected viruses present each with similar quantities to virus B. Then these 100 other viruses would have a sum total 10x that of virus A.
Very clever and it makes a lot of sense.
Mr Steve,
Did you know there was a fake whooping cough epidemic already?
Which was based on... PCR tests?
Our luck was that there was another test available, considered gold standard, which proved that PCR test was meaningless.
Otherwise, we would have lived in perpetual fear of whooping cough, and a global pandemic would have been declared already (sounds familiar)?
Quote:
"Not a single case of whooping cough was confirmed with the definitive test, growing the bacterium, Bordetella pertussis, in the laboratory. Instead, it appears the health care workers probably were afflicted with ordinary respiratory diseases like the common cold."
That's what happens when you don't have a proper test available, and you rely on PCR.
Read this post, you might learn a thing or two about our history with epidemics:
https://blog.plan99.net/pseudo-epidemics-7603b2da839
And it's well documented in mainstream media as well, it's not a 'conspiracy theory', like the sheep like to call everything that oppose their pre-established ideas..
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/22/health/22whoop.html
I'm inclined to believe that you are either part of controlled opposition, or you don't like to admit you are wrong about PCR tests and viruses in general, and recourse to confirmation bias and logical fallacies to maintain your position.
I will gladly debate you on this topic - me being another IT guy, like you, with no formal training in microbiology or virology.
And I will do it for free, at a time of your convenience.
Great reply, Steve is revealing his true beliefs.
which is ...?
thanks for filling out the form. I emailed you to explain how Sin Lee got it wrong. If you can do that, we'll debate you.
hey Steve...are you giving us references to the same "scientists" that suckered you into getting vaxxed? the vax that you are now exposing as a life threatening hoax...asking for a friend
i asked you to explain his result. How is the virus mutating. Why didn't you do that?
But there is a "well-defined genome." Actually, there are hundreds of different ones that claim to be 'real.' Take your pick. Too much is fishy about Steve's claims.
Not one that's been identified in an intact organism. That would be a requirement for us to believe in its existence.
I agree. The debate is going to be a total fiasco and both sides are going to accomplish one thing only: they are going to discredit themselves further in the eyes of public opinion. And that's what the Vaccine Nazis would love.
Sin Lee didn't get his reference sample from ATCC so why are you deliberately misleading people Proton?
He got this info from your post
Proton Magic doesn't apply to debate us. Fill out the form and explain Sin Lee's result. According to you, it isn't a virus that is mutating. What is?
Steve,
I must warn you: your arguments are getting childish. Stop the bleeding now, I beg you!
What choice do they have? They can't infect a few dozens of mice with SARS COV2 and wait for months in hopes one mouse develops flu like symptoms...
The funding part is also another red herring.
You and Kevin could fund this easily- for you and he that would be drop in the bucket- not even that.
For the others not so much.
You offer a million for this and million for that in your various challenges so certainly you have some spare change to fund this. I believe you are using that as an excuse to run away from this discussion.
You also have a vested ideological interest in maintaining this "theory" and Kevin's entire career is held within it. Not exactly objective, curious bystanders interested in pure scientific discussion.
Two things stand out here- one is that your derision and snide hostility about this is palpable and you might consider that the "offical Covid" establishment considers you quite disdainfully. Remember "do unto others?"
Secondly, what is with the cheap shots? Why do you feel so threatened by this?
Were you there through the AIDS discussions in the 90's- 2000' etc? No you were not.
That's fine but guess what. Those who were contending that AIDS was not caused by some virus were widely ridiculed and had their careers ruined in many cases. Plus ca change. Guess who was right all along?
You seem like someone who is too stubborn and has too much ego involved to reflect on that and even entertain the possibility that just maybe we are in a parallel situation.
Er, McCairn could not fund these experiments at all as is out of scientific work due to injury. I know very little about science but have been following him long enough to know his provenance and character.
I'm not interested in Kevin's or Steves' or Tom's or Sam's or....anyones supposed character.
I'm only interested in the open, honest discussion (which BTW as others agree on is not the primary discussion given the crimes being committed) and above board representation of the situation.
I have respect for some of what Steve does but this is a series of cheap shots and misrepresentations. He is being dishonest in much of what he is saying.
Notice I never presuppose Kevin is in agreement with Steve's characterization of the situation.
It would be an easy discussion to have on any Thursday over at VSRF. Far more interesting than Alex Berenson. He'll make excuses as to why he won't do it.
If Steve is interested in examining some "questionable" motives or characters how about Robert Malone and Corbevax vaccine (which we know has caused damage) and maybe his ties to US intelligence. I'm not even saying that is worthwhile but certainly far more honorable than his attacks here.
Now let's keep in mind through all of this that it was Steve who opened up the can of worms.
If you want to register to do the debate the instructions are in the article and we can hash it all out. You just have to explain Sin Lee's challenge and you're in. Simple.
Steve, your debate ends with two questions, i.e., how has been an alleged bio virus separated from everything else for verification purposes or how a direct real time observation of all vital occurring processes with an alleged bio virus has been done?
Hi Steve,
Did you even read what I wrote? I understand you have a lot happening as we all do and perhaps read things hastily so let me be clear here.
I am opening up the discussion/debate on the notion of there being a legitimate "pandemic" (epidemiological emergency) in 2020- not the germ theory/terrain theory discussion. I am not scientifically qualified for that discussion nor are you.
I am eminently qualified to have the discussion/debate on the particulars of "Covid Pandemic" of 2020.
This is not some side discussion- this is the whole ball game.
My position is clear- there was no pandemic of any sort anyhwere in the world in 2020. I can illustrate that through copious data which is irrefutable. Through this I will also show that massive fraud was involved in creating the perception that there was an epidemiological emergency in 2020.
I will do so in whatever format you see fit.
The people that needs to see the statistics and data for this do not want to. They have closed their eyes. They have come to realise that they took a dangerous shot for something that did not exist in the first place and that they played along with the FEARmongering. That is hard to swallow and to admit.
And if you make money on pursuing the ‘virus’ narrative even though you have called out the hoax of the experimental injections means that it will take a lot to confirm the non existence of contagion.
Steve will never to agree to debate the Fake Pandemic.
His whole schtick is based on the REALITY of the Fake Virus.
No virus, no pandemic, and certainly no need for any Countermeasures.
> BTW as others agree on is not the primary discussion
Sorry, "the virus" is ABSOLUTELY the primary discussion!
Because while all of the "Virus Pushers Against Clotshots", of which Kirsch is a founding member, (see:
http://apocalypticyoga.wikidot.com/virus-pushers-against-clotshots)
are CLAIMING to fight various "countermeasures" (Mandates, Masks, Social Distancing, Lockdowns, Vaccines, etc), in the courts, selling books, selling tickets to various "Crimes Against Humanity, World Tours" (yes, more than one)...
#TeamNoVirus is working on ROOT CAUSES.
If we do not address the CORE FRAUD of this hoax narrative, then I fear we will keep battling endless fake pandemics and fake countermeasures (themselves deadly) forever.
Not at this point Bill- at least not with the majority of people.
Here's how I see it.
We live in a house that has a shitty foundation that needs fixing. We're arguing about how to fix it what are the problems etc. The house catches fire due to arson. What we need to do is put out the fire in the immediate.
This doesn't change the fact that fundamentally we still live in a house with a flawed foundation and once the fire is put out that needs to be addressed.
In our real world situation both facets of the discussion can and should happen concurrently in my view.
I get what you are saying completely. I do know from experience that I can convince many people that the "pandemic" story is a fraud. Once you get them there then you can ask those next questions.
> once the fire is put out that needs to be addressed.
Sorry, i strongly disagree.
Look at the graphic at the top of this page:
http://apocalypticyoga.wikidot.com/virus-pushers-against-clotshots
That's exactly what you are doing, fighting endless fires. Busy work until you address root causes.
> I can convince many people that the "pandemic" story is a fraud
Without addressing the FOUNDATIONAL CORE FRAUD, the story of "the virus"? Good luck with that.
Most of the big names like Bigtree, RFK, Fuellmich, Kory, Mercola, Mikovits, Alexander, Bridle, Malone, McCullough, etc etc ad nauseum 🤢🤮 are PROMOTING THE CORE LIE!!!
That MAY BE a great strategy for selling endless books and legal services, but it is overall a LOSING STRATEGY.
Thanks for the essay.
What a snide, shallow comment.
If what I wrote to you is 'essay length' in your world please stick to TikTok or other mind numbing social media that doesn't tax your brain beyond 132 characters.
A million dollars is a drop in the bucket for Elon Musk, not for me.
It's a flawed experiment as I pointed out in the article. They have not thought it through.
I don't feel threatened at all. THEY WILL NOT DEBATE US. They won't even have a meeting to discuss the challenge. Kevin accepted but they won't talk to him.
If Poornima Wagh wants to debate us or anyone with similar credentials, we'll set it up.
But none of them are coming forward.
Steve, Dr Tom Cowan has publicly stated on his site that he's very open to proposals from your side on how to redesign the experiments. No need for debate. Simply propose your own design with proper controls. This is certainly a reasonable position. It would be helpful to drop the "I'm right and who the hell are these guys anyway?" attitude and focus entirely on getting the science right. The simple reality is no virus has ever been found in the bodily fluids of any sick person. We now need to determine if that is because of flaws in approach or perhaps (drum roll) the true cause of disease isn't a virus! Either way involving our egos in the discussion is a nonhelpful distraction.
You consistently speak about your exchanges with Christine Massey and then conflate those exchanges to the rest of the people you cite. Very dishonest.
Did these other people say to you- "Christine Massey" is our "team leader" and she speaks for us.
No of course they did not. So why do you keep doing this? And what's up with the cheap shots?
Further, she is one of the least qualified of those involved to discuss this topic.
Steve you are a relative newcomer to these disucssions and to these medical Ponzi scams. You might try a little humility here and learn from others. You might also start learning some history about these matters which you are painfully ignorant about.
In both those cases I'm not even speaking about Terrain v. Germ Theory.
So Steve- do you think there was an actual viral pandemic in 2020?
My guess is that you won't even answer this question- hope to be wrong.
yes, i think there was an actual viral pandemic in 2020.
I learned the history of Lanka's bet. Have you? It was disingenuous don't you think?
Why are they qualifying their samples with lateral flow analysis?
Steve again- what is your evidence that there was a pandemic in 2020?
We can do the other questions in a separate discussion if desired.
Perhaps open up a discussion on that questiuon as it is a vital- if not THE vital question- that needs to be addressed.
Allen, the proof is very clear that certainly this is indeed was a scamdemic very well planned and executed. Fake videos out of Wuhan with "crisis actors" who reappear etc, denying the elderly in nursing homes any type of sustenance as a rationale to put them down with midazolam (a lethal sedative) etc.
Later on a highly pathnogenic spike protein was released in a number of different ways possibly through flu vaccines for example.. This spike was a well designed slow kill bioweapon.
The evidence of a chimeric virus with a spike protein is very strong. That does not mean it was deployed early. You only have to look at the work of Ralph Baric or Dr. Li Meng Yan's articles to know the truth.
The point is the genesis of the scamdemic and where we are now are two completely different subjects.
Peace,
Sid
My name is Patrick Gunnels. I am a 2 year student of Drs Kaufman, Cowan, Bailey, Vollmer, et al. I have a show called Reading Epic Threads and I would be happy to debate you and your team of experts any time, any place, and I will get out of bed to do it if it's late notice in the middle of the night. Please reach out to me at pgunnels@gmail.com.
"yes, i think there was an actual viral pandemic in 2020."
What's your evidence for this statement?
you know, silent hypoxia, normal procalcitonin, anosmia that lasts for weeks and a 770% increase in respiratory deaths v. 2019
Oh, yeah, facts don't matter to you. Bye.
Tom- There was no excess mortality in 2020 which was the first full year of the so called pandemic. Excess mortality only began in 2021 coinciding with the rollout of the mRNA injections. Haiti and most African states reported almost no incidence of COVID-19. Interesting that the vaccine take up in these places was among the lowest in the world.
Denying statistical evidence based on death certificates is a crank thing to do.
This is an epidemiological observation. Such observations are used to generate hypotheses, not conclusions. Also, these statistics are literally made up.
Something's made up, all right.
"770% increase in respiratory deaths vs 2019"
Really?!
Last time I've heard the year over year deaths were pretty much even.
Not much excess deaths, if any.. well, not until the experimental injections came out, anyways..
There were excess deaths in 2020 and 2021 in the US.
Right around 420,000 in 2020 and 470,000 in 2021. I have the exact figures elsewhere.
None of this was caused by an unusual viral event.
It was all caused by iatrogenic events, consequences of lockdowns and compounded by an experiemental mass inoculation program that is poisoning people.
We will also have excess deaths in 2022.
Two interesting notes. The 6 week peak in March/April 2020 ("The Pandemic") would not even register if we remove 8 states from the mortality equation. We must assume that this virus understands borders.
These 8 states all mandated the exact same policies regarding hospitals, hospice, nursing homes, care dentrs etc. The average age of death during this "peak" was a little over 80 years old. Not too diffciult to figure out what happened here.
Also interesting is that the largest single period of excess mortality WAS NOT that 6 week period but was the 8 week period spanning the end of 2020 and early 2021. This 8 week period accounted for a full 20% of the excess deaths over these two years.
A unique medical intervention occurred leading into that period.
Look again at influenza and pneumonia deaths....
https://deadorkicking.com/death-statistics/us/2020/
Here are the questions I would ask him. Not that he’ll answer because he’s not interested in true debate, certainly not coming from this flank.
Is a war being waged on humanity?
Is the existence of a novel virus essential to the waging of this war? Or is propaganda and media dominance enough?
Were people really dropping dead in the streets of Wuhan?
Was “two weeks to flatten the curve” ever true in any way?
Why are you injected? Show us your calculus.
The Telescreen, Man.
i asked Dr Yeadon about his take on Germ Theory a few hours ago after i reviewed a video link he posted of himself being interviewed, and he mentioned but didn't address gem theory by the end of the vid... and this was his reply...
https://naomiwolf.substack.com/p/facing-the-beast/comment/7805460
thanks Hawk700s! incredibly interesting!!! ty for sharing this link!!! it's from June, but just posted yesterday?
anyway... I'd start at 1 hour 40 minutes... they have a miscoscopic view of a coronavirus!!! ??? looks just as well defined as the bacteria that were easily visible under a standard microscope in '00's when i was in school... watching more... from Dr Richard Fleming... sorry if this isn't new to you, Steve...?
https://rumble.com/v1cnwvv-25-june-2022-caht-tampa-florida-usa.html
Having followed these clowns for a few years now, it is obvious they are not serious at letting the science find the truth. It's all about feeding their egos with all the attention they have gotten from way, way too many gullible people. It is also more than slightly likely, they are allowed the freedom on the internet to continue this clown show because it distracts from the lab-origin of the virus and all the implications of bio-warfare being used as a soft-kill global "reset" weapon.
LOL. There is no such thing proven as bio virus.
No lab leak, nothing.
Show me a research done with any alleged bio virus by direct real time observation of all vital occurring processes with it or by experimentation on any alleged bio virus as an independent variable.
Propaganda is the nuclear weapon we face. They want the masses to freely walk to their enslavement and death. Only the idea of the virus is needed. Steve demonstrates that. He freely took the injection.
That might explain the change in his mindset, recently?
There is speculation re: developing prion disease.
Steve, what use is a debate. That would solve nothing. The disagreement is on the process. Why don't you help set this scientific experiment in motion? Samples from sick people sent to 5 labs. No labs know the other lab. With the same disease from the same person, all 5 labs should find the same virus. Why is this so controversial and divisive. Seems it would settle things. I would also like a video crew in each lab documenting the steps. This would pull back the secret curtain and let people see the process.
Better yet, set up a blind blood draw of vaxxed people and run the micro clot tests (d-Dimer, CRP) and the immune system tests (DC8, DC4) TO validate the immune system destruction.
Do the statistics vs UnVaxxed and cohort analysis vs normal ranges.
Show people proactively in real time their damaged body from the Jabs.
This will red pill the Vaxxed deniers.
Great reply, no need for "debate" & it might make a few people snap out if it.
It wont settle things because these folks aren't serious about finding the truth. Listening to Tom Cowan for more than five minutes guarantees you have damaged your brain cells.
I need less than 30 minutes to destroy anyone in a debate to prove that alleged bio viruses have never been proven by direct real time observation of all vital occurring processes with them or experimentation on them as independent variables.
I will do this once he officially confirms of his will to do so.
Not through his phony show where he makes excuses and runs away with his colleagues.
He won't. His bosses won't let him.
Huh, I like Cowan. Then again I’m a 60 year old who has never had any medical intervention as an adult. Some of us think health should be the focus, not disease.
EXACTLY!!!
Steve, admit that you are afraid to debate me.
I challenged you before and you ran away from me.
At some point you must feel like you're spamming, no?
Seems you are angry at Tom. Not sure why. But would make a good debater for that side. But you can still be wrong. That’s why science is about proof. Not opinion or consensus. People like Tom are saying the process is faulty. His proposed experiment would answer many question. Let’s do science.
Are you kidding me? Science? Explain to us why they said they want to certify the samples with PCR *OR* the even MORE inaccurate lateral flow assay. Why not specify Sanger sequencing? And *THEY* supply the samples??!!? That's trustable. You think that is SCIENCE?
If you bothered to actually read the challenge or watch the video discussing this further - THEY ARE WILLING TO MEET YOU HALFWAY. Because they already know NO VIROLOGIST currently follows the CORRECT methods (Kochs or Rivers postulates - they dont even satisfy step 1).
they say in the video between Cowan and Bailey that this was a compromise meeting the virologists on their own terms as they (virologists) will not question their own techniques re isolation. This is why PCR is suggested. Because this is the main tool underpinning the fake pandemic and is accepted by mainstream virology as valid. Cowan and Bailey also say they welcome critique on their outlined challenge. Why not provide them your advice on how this challenge can be sured up and made less arguable. Instead of doing comments for click bait.
Because the virologist don’t currently use Sanger sequencing. They only use the computer generated sequence. I’m sure Tom would love to use Sanger. Instead of bickering, let’s get the experiment done. All 5 labs should come up with the same genetic sequence no matter what method they use. Tom said PCR because that’s what they currently do. Meeting them on their territory so to speak.
I'd say that you are talking about yourself.
there is no virus because viruses don't exist at all? Or because we haven't isolated THIS one. Please be specific.
There was nothing isolated for verification purposes nor directly observed in real time to make such a conclusion about it.
Then you should fill out the debate form so I have your contact info and let's discuss it. Why haven't you done that?
because i never said that. Proof is our meeting on Friday which YOU delayed so YOU can create a spectacle out of it.
This is a really cheap, unfounded and totally irrelevant claim.
Just because Steve is well off, it doesn't mean he has joined the dark side of globalists. He has been fighting the vaccination agenda like none I know using his own resources and time. He has been vindicated many times.
Just because he disagrees with your views, throwing mud at him, instead of debating him and his side, shows you are not worthy of his time.
You clearly don't understand how science works and what Steve attempts to accomplish...
If I were Steve, I'd ignore you.
AGREED! in my fog i couldn't process it all, but the bear story is RIVETING imho...
yes! sooo much corruption, i couldn't process it all....... !
So your proof is, I got sick so it must be covid because two other people had it that
I came in contact with so that must prove it was covid. If it wasn't covid then what was it?
Then you say because they won't debate you or pay for someone else to try to prove viruses exist that they must be wrong.
How about you going to the book Virus Mania, sight a few of the books reported findings, and give your reason why they're wrong?
It's interesting that there is literally billions of dollars of funds, both government and special interest, going for the solution to something yet there's no real scientific proof using the scientific method to prove it exist.
In the meantime millions of people are dying around the world from the mRNA blood clotting concoction injections!
Steve when your sick why does it have to be a virus at all ? I thought they were out there too til I got off my arse and read Steffan Lanka, Dr Cowan, Dr Kaufman, Dr Harmer NGM, ....it's all occult witchcraft not even proper Pagan witchcraft cos they were real why...Christian Priests don't like God market çompetition. Just flex your brain and get outta the pharma monkey tissue DNA, human cell, bovine soup for a tick.....and breath new light into the old consciousness.....cos viral madness is over. At least for me it is.
Steve, I have just seen this, not read all of it, just the gist, so forgive me if this reply is not what you're looking for. As is often the case, one side is talking apples, the other is talking oranges. I think Sam Bailey et al realise this, and are hesitant to debate with you because they're not sure how to reconcile the two. After much, much reading and listening, I do not believe that a pathogenic piece of DNA is invading our cells and replicating itself to create the symptoms of Covid-19. I have written about this here: https://linlaz.substack.com/p/positive-covid-test-what-does-it. I have also made some comments about the difference between "Covid" symptoms and normal flu in this article: https://linlaz.substack.com/i/81545801/but-why-the-pandemic. I do hope this goes some way towards answering your questions. I am sorry you and your wife were sick, but I would urge you to remember that you may have been exposed to a toxin at the same time, which might appear to be an infection. The body's reaction is the same. I'm happy to debate with you further by email. With good wishes for your work, Linda.
Let's go back to basics, 1) use Koch's postulate to identify that a virus exists that causes an illness. 2) Identify a unique test that can detect the unique virus in a person's cells in their respiratory system, nasal cavity etc. 3) Isolate the unique virus in people who demonstrate severe symptoms. 4) replicate the virus and infect other people. 5) Determine if the virus is external and aerosolized and transmitted thought air into another persons respiratory mystery system resulting in infection? 6) Determine if the "virus" is an internal expression of cellular garbage in response to toxicity, e.g. 5g or other influence?
I can't speak for your 'opponents' but there are some issues with your commentary. First, no practitioner or researcher will or should comment on a personal and unknown case of anything. Second, the PCR tests are fraudulent. You should know the very 'inventor' of that test stated emphatically it was not to be used for diagnosis. Third, its use has been used in an unethical manner to create the illusion of massive illness when there was little to be found in reality. They did this by up cycling cell fragments excessively till they found a fragment of a something and they named it without any real identification. The list of aberrations in the narrative is quite long. But one thing that really stands out is that no one have been able to produce or replicate such a microbe. Even Fauci told requesting researchers he had no samples of the 'virus/' No one in t he world had any. From the very beginning the Koch principles were not met and Fauci's solution was to trash those standards which have formed the basis for science since the late 19c. This is fraudulent in its own right. So my problem with your challenge and criticism of others who won't step up to your plate is that so much of what you claim is blatantly questionable in light of all we know from so many sources. One of those sources is the CDC VAERS data base itself which show the vaccinated much more susceptible to being seriously ill. And those dying are not particularly treated well nor are their deaths honestly listed. And that problem is a whole chapter in itself.
Perhaps a better avenue is to find the points of concurrence and work to build a coalition that will challenge the aberrations of a system controlled by big money and that pushes people into a state of co-dependency and bodily enslavement against personal interest.
Jim--I feel very honored to have received positive feedback from you on my songs. I will check out your link.
Check out some of my more recent music videos:
O HOLY ROMAN
A child asserts his independence from other children who wear the mask
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV25IBWFwJw
YOU DIDN’T RECOGNIZE ME
A familiar figure pulls the strings behind the plandemic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAg9ECs6d9g
THE BALLAD OF TYPHOID MARY
The story of Mary Mallon, one of the first victims of medical tyranny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJmr7o8K9mU
IN TOBA TEK SINGH
An American is conned by a man from Pakistan who claims he’s been left indigent due to the lockdowns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88iazIAx7o8
ONE TRICK PONY
A man takes the “virus” as his bride
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=250c__hkKF0
MY COVID CRAZY GIRL
A man ditches his girlfriend after she becomes a Covid fanatic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZzwnM5RM7U
100 years of observations' and 'This is not how science works. In science you collect data and you figure out which hypothesis best fits the data'!!!
this is hilarious.
You do not design the hypothesis to fit the observation. You design the experiment to disprove your hypothesis. If it still holds you do another one.
I could make up all sorts that would fit the data. Until I do experiments and not rely on 100 years of observing things I won't know if they are valid.
https://georgiedonny.substack.com/p/seeing-is-believing
Also how do you know that the genome comes from a virus when you never separated it from everything else that the RNA could come from?
Jo
Kind of like the democrats. They'll find someone they dislike or feel threatened by, then change definitions, words, phish to get a crime to fit their narrative.
https://solluckman.substack.com/p/dr-tom-cowan-new-study-of-sars-cov?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
People aren't getting Covid-19. They are getting the flu/pneumonia or another type of coronavirus (Sars, Mers, etc). This is how they deceived people that Covid-19 exists. If the media and public health officials have lied about everything else they are lying about this. Plus, the fraudulent and meaningless pcr and antigen tests also prove it doesn't exist. FDA documents from 2020 prove it doesn't exist. Everything being ruled as Covid-19 by the CDC is proof it doesn't exist. Yes, there are viruses circulating. In fact, the human body is never absent of viruses. They are allies and because we have viruses living in or on our bodies is another reason people have been duped that covid-19 exists. Lastly, viruses don't make one sick. It is poor diet, poor lifestyle choices, and enviromental toxins that cause dieseae. It is all the fake foods (gmos and proceed foods), vaccines, medications, personal care and cleaning products that we are putting in and on our bodies that are making us sick. Lean into terrain theory and trust God's design for your health.
Steve. Why don't you at least go back to Patrick Gunnels and present everything you have to him? He said he is "ALWAYS" open to change his mind.
As with most debates I think the answer lies in between. Like the intelligent design versus evolution debate I believe they are both right and both wrong.
I am no specialist but have had a life full of things considered rare in the allopathic system. I had to learn health from scratch by abandoning all prior knowledge and learning by observation and experience because what the allopathic system was telling me did not add up. I’ve spent many decades on this.
I believe viruses exist but I don’t believe they are directly responsible for severe illness and death.
What I have observed is that the virus is the trigger and just how insects always attack unhealthy plants first it’s the same with a virus.
I am hypersensitive to many metals and have had adverse events to two spinal implants, bone cement, amalgam fillings and glass ionomer fillings, the mercury in tuna, the titanium dioxide in food, the aluminium in antiperspirant to name a few.
Our body has trouble breaking down metals and they build up causing a toxic load.
We may feel health and fine but I believe when we get a virus it triggers the immune system into hard detox mode to expel the virus. But in the process the body also tries expelling the built up toxic load. It moves it through the organs and causes severe illness and death.
The symptoms of metal toxicity are the same as a respiratory virus.
If we do not have a type 4 allergy to the metals in our toxic load and have a low toxic load we will get mild or no symptoms from covid like most people.
If we do not have a type 4 allergy to the metals in our toxic load but have a high toxic load we will get bad symptoms from covid
If we DO have a type 4 allergy to the metals in our toxic load we will get severe symptoms from covid and could die.
So the virus is the trigger but the symptoms are an indication of our toxic load and our hypersensitivity to the metals in it. It’s our response to the metals in our toxic load that causes the range of symptoms not the virus.
During the plague it was noticed that onion farmers and their families never got the plague. I think they did but due to having a diet high in onions they showed no symptoms as they had a very low toxic load as eating onions daily will detoxify the body.
Without the SARS-Cov-2 Steve's whole narrative of debunking stats would fall flat on it's face and Steve's subscriptions would be decimated.
Simple conclusion: Steve 24/7/365 job of debunking stats would fail to exist without SARS-Cov-2.
Why when I subscribe to Steve's subscription am I taken to a Twitter link to spread the word? Why isn't Steve banned from Twitter and YouTube like all the others spreaders of disinformation?
Then Steve changes his narrative and puts up a high stakes wager that his narrative exist. (Mmm... Most definitely controlled opposition.) Why start shooting down the people that are on his side? That's reverse psy-ops: Infiltrate the enemy and then start taking them out with high stakes wagers Oligarchs fuckery!
Steve Kirsch is most definitely paid off controlled opposition funded by clandestine deepstate backers that are untraceable. Meaning Steve is CIA or as connections with the deepstate oligarchs. Its very suspicious how Steve puts up absurds amount of money to back up SARS-Cov-2 exist. It's like the fella is trying to price out oppostion by overinflating the stakes. Why not have a free wager and shake hands then have a debate Steve?
One question I would have is... If I believe Steve is a shill for the oligarchs how do I know that the so called independent board of judges are don't paid off on the incognito tip? Is Steve going to pull them from a hat? I very much doubt it. These judges will have to be highly educated academics with an unbias view on SARS-Cov-2. How can these judges have an unbias view on SARS-Cov-2? It's virtually impossible to be unbias. You're either a believer or a non-believer. It's really is that simple.
If Steve with his vast amounts of money could buy purificated and isolated SARS-Cov-2 viruses like his friends and give them to human test subjects and see if these test subjects become ill with the virus symptoms he believes exist. And then he is able to extract that exact virus from the test subject and give it to another human who has the same symptoms and then convince me that it was actually the virus that made the test subjects unwell then I will believe him. Could I please also look at this so called phantom virus under an electron microscope that he will extracted from a human patient?
What Steve fails to acknowledge is that there's a massive difference between the virus he claims exist naturally and the one that was patented and made and originated in a biolab in Wuhan. If Steve believes the Wuhan theory; wouldn't that make Steve's virus a patented bioweapon and not an original virus created from nature? If that's not the case then why does the virus have DNA matches that are patented to Pfizer? I know why, but can Steve please explain to me why? I thought all viruses were created naturally? I thought biowesoon were made unnaturally? Please don't get to techinal and talk about DNA-direct patterning and playing God, because playing God is not a natural occurrence. Please tell me Steve how come they couldn't find the original source of the virus from nature? That Chris Matersion, PHD from Peak Prosperity brilliantly debunked. You posted his video link in your email. Like you Chris believes the virus is a bioweapon with a patented sequence which belongs to Pfizer.
Now if I critically free think about all of the above and go deep. I challenge Steve to prove he is not controlled opposition, deepstate and I also challenge Steve to show me one viable natural SARS-Cov-2 occurring virus that isn't a bioweapon, which makes people unwell
I for one am stunned at the simple argument “what made me sick that showed positive on antigen tests?” Are you kidding? We all know the tests don’t even differentiate between flu and common cold, which btw is a form of Covid right? So I have heard. So his lame argument on this one threw me and made me think like you…what is really up with this Kat? A good guy or a schill? Not sure now. Acting like the only thing the antigen test could have shown positive for was Covid? As if they are even 50% reliable in the first place or testing for any one thing. As if. Plaseeease. Truth is. If everyone would just quit testing already life could go back to normal - sort of. Except for world economic forum, George soros and who, China, Iran, Russia, Ukrainian, the global economic depression and all that. Lol
Look for proof for contagion for any so called contagious disease; there isn't, so there are no viral particles, so what 'virus'?
See i.e. Rosenau experiment.
Dr Poornima Wagh was sacked for a reason.
She doesn't understand "modern" virology.
She may have a couple of PhD's but after watching her 1hr 20minute video interview she is talking absolute nonsense.
She wants her 15 minutes of fame and has joined the other disgraced malcontents Lanka, Kaufman, Cowan, Bailey et al to try to make a name for herself in the alternative media.
Nearly everything she said has been totally debunked.
Yes SARS-CoV-2 was blown out of all proportion and was probably a conspiracy to deceive for nefarious means but what she says about viruses is laughable.
The “toxic soup” she refers to is in fact nutrients that scientists always use to keep the human cells alive.
Viruses are a parasitic entity and can only survive on living cells.
It is likely she allowed the 1500 cell samples she had from Covid patients to die if she didn’t, by her own admission, add nutrients.
This is why she couldn’t find any virus after filtration and centrifuge and didn’t see any infection in the ferrets she injected.
No wonder she was sacked.