Outstanding and well worth the time to listen. It wasn't easy though. Thanks to Wallace Hooker and Tom Haviland for speaking out, and thanks also to Steve and Livio.
- This video is the recorded livestream hosted by Steve Kirsch, founder of the Vaccine Safety Research Foundation, and Livio Sanchez. https://www.vacsafety.org. This is an Internet interview; each participant appears separately on the screen.
- From the show notes:
"Guest Tom Haviland, retired U.S. Air Force Major and independent researcher, who has been tracking the alarming and unprecedented phenomenon: white, fibrous clots discovered during embalming over the past several years... Wallace P. (Wally) Hooker CFSP, MBIE, the owner/funeral director/embalmer of Family & Friends Funeral Home of Wingate, IN."
- The white clots are variously called fibrin clots, fibrinaloid clots, fibrinaloid castings, calamari clots, and amyloid clots.
- Also discussed in this excerpt are "grape jelly" or currant clots, and also chicken fat clots, which, in contrast to the white clots, have been long known to experienced embalmers.
50:07
WALLACE HOOKER: What I find interesting maybe in 2022 I was at the Indiana Coroner's Conference and I was interacting with some forensic pathologists. And I showed them the photos. And just about all of them were dismissive. Didn't want to talk about it. Didn't want to hear about it. And I said, why do you think they're forming? I don't know.
STEVE KIRSCH: Huh huh! Huh huh!
TOM HAVILAND: Now Wally—
STEVE KIRSCH: Intellectual curiosity at its best.
TOM HAVILAND: — Wally, you've never removed a grape jelly clot that was able to hold together that that is that long, right, or or even a chicken fat clot, nothing like that.
WALLACE HOOKER: I can show you a currant jelly clot that's probably the size of, you know, I'll bet it was 6 inches long and as big around as the bottom of a Coke bottle. And this came, this came from a Pentecostal pastor's wife—
TOM HAVILAND: Wow.
WALLACE HOOKER: — who's a funeral director embalmer. None of us have any reason to lie about what we're seeing! That's what disturbs me. We have no agenda. Nobody's paying us to say these things. It's cost me money, it's cost me my reputation to a certain degree. But on the other hand, I had a local guy say, you know, people look up to you because you've taken a stand, you're looking for answers, and maybe you think you've lost business but you might be getting business, too, as a result of how you are.
TOM HAVILAND: Yeah.
WALLACE HOOKER: So, fighting the fight. And when people send me these photos I know we're not in this alone.
Tom HAVILAND: Amen. Now the grape jelly clot you removed that was 6 inches long, did that break up pretty easily? I would think so, right? It's a grape jelly clot.
WALLACE HOOKER: Those do.
TOM HAVILAND: Yeah.
WALLACE HOOKER: Then I had an embalmer send me a photo of a big fibrin clot. It was probably 8 to 10 inches long. And he actually put 5 sets of locking forceps on it and held it up and it didn't break it.
TOM HAVILAND: Wow. Yeah. [inaudible] Richard,[1] he stretched them too, they have pretty good tensile strength and they snap back like a rubber band. They can take a lot of force before they snap. [inaudible] fibrous clots.
52:28
WALLACE HOOKER: I've soaked them in turpentine and it didn't affect them. I've soaked them in straight formaldehyde, it didn't affect them. It changed the color. I've used just rubbing alcohol. Nothing attacked them. So I think once they're in the body, I don't know how they could break down when they're that large.
52:48
TOM HAVILAND: They don't. And from talking to Dr. [inaudible], the, my semi-whistleblower from Jacksonville, Florida, [2] he told me that you know, they, first of all when they get the patient in they try their best clot busting drugs like tissue plasminogen activator, TPA.[3] They work great on grape jelly clots and chicken fat clots. They don't work worth a darn on these white fibrous clots because they're so tough like you're talking about. So then he has to get a little flexible catheter to either suck the clot out, scrape it out, or lasso it and pull it out.
Now what's the largest chicken fat clot you've ever found? Because those have been around before covid.
53:25
WALLACE HOOKER: Those were around, I don't think that they've changed that much.
TOM HAVILAND: How— What's the largest one of those you've ever found?
WALLACE HOOKER: Three to 4 inches. Something like that.
TOM HAVILAND: But they do tear easily?
WALLACE HOOKER: Yes.
LIVIO SANCHEZ: Are you still finding those?
WALLACE HOOKER: Yes. And the currant jelly clots, yeah. The micro clots, yes.
53:47
TOM HAVILAND: And before were the grape jelly clots you mentioned earlier, the embalmers that I've talked to, including Woody Wilson the President of the Ohio Embalmers Association, Woody said that actually, he started seeing when we actually had covid, before we even had the vaccines, his grape jelly clots started becoming a little more like grape jam. They became a little thicker that year, in 2020. But he didn't see any white fibrous clots himself until 2021, after the jabs rolled out. Just like you and Richard Hirschman.
54:13
STEVE KIRSCH: So is there— Since all this has become known, it's been, has there been any significant change in terms of people recognize— Is there anybody anywhere in the world, any health authority anywhere in the world that recognizes this and has said, and has warned people?
TOM HAVILAND: Not to my knowledge, Steve. You know, every year I've had my survey done I've immediately reported the results to the NIH, CDC and FDA[4]. I got a tracking number on my very first survey, I think I sent that to you. But the FDA never contacted me. They had a meeting of their Vaccine and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee, when it was under Peter Marks', you know, direction.
STEVE KIRSCH: Oh Yeah.
TOM HAVILAND: We all know about Peter Marks. His people did not reach out to me at all. So I resubmitted all the [inaudible]—
STEVE KIRSCH: Color me not surprised on that one.
TOM HAVILAND: Yeah. Yeah. That's why we're working hard with Jay Bhattacharya[6] and Bobby's folks[7] and Marty Makary[8] because I'm hoping under this new administration they will start to pay attention to it. And I understand they're dealing with the deep state inside their own organizations. I'm hoping that these new guys at the top that are our allies will get the job done and get them working on this.
55:27
WALLACE HOOKER: You know, you asked, Steve, about people speaking out in the profession. When you look at how Dr. Peter McCullough has been treated, how Brian Ardis has been treated, how Ryan Cole has been treated. Here's people with knowledge and they have the background that these people that were dismissing me were looking for, but yet they go out there and they talk about it, they can substantiate it and back it up, and they're still just being beat up and dismissed.
TOM HAVILAND: And they go after their licenses and board certifications and try to make an example out of them to shut the rest of us up.
Re: Steve posted this story, only four of his 245,000 subscribers - Steve still charging $100 a year membership? - that means for his monthly news he is earning 24 Million 500 Thousand Dollars a year from his substack, this substack, but on monthly posts alone.
I've had to cut back on most of my paid subscribers to save money, but I was a paid subscriber to Steve's site for years. Unless he's raised his prices big-time, it wasn't $100/year. I was paying $5/month. Steve posts about 20 articles a month, which means I was paying 25 cents per article. I'm now a free subscriber and get all of his content for 0 cents a month.
We need clarity on what the H is going on at HHS ASAP, Mr. Kirsch and other Medical Freedom movement leaders. The politics of MAHA are going south quickly. The anniversary of Kennedy's landmark speech is shaping up to be festival of accusation and bitterness. The GOP and Trumpist leaders ARE OUT OF THEIR HEADS and the base will not be kept in the dark any longer. https://dissidentcon.substack.com/p/what-the-hell-is-going-on-at-hhs
Thank you Bill Rice Jr. for bringing this to my attention. I'll be tuning in to this.
Mr. Kirsch: feel free to delete if not acceptable: Tom Haviland and Laura Kasner from Clotastrophy were kind enough to join my podcast UnWoke.Academy on this topic last year. Anyone interested in understanding more in preparation for tonight's special program may enjoy: https://jbroadbent.substack.com/p/unwoke-clotastrophe-with-laura-kasner
Steve Kirsch and Tom Haviland— I am looking forward to watching this— as much as one can look forward to such an squeamish topic. I appreciate your efforts to research and communicate about this urgent issue.
Maybe it's just me, but it seems strange that a Steve Kirsch Substack post had generated comments from only four readers in two hours. Only one person who commented got more than one "like." Is this topic being censored or shadow-banned? Is Steve's Substack being censored or shadow-banned?
As I keep writing, "freedom of reach" is just as important - maybe more important - than "freedom of speech."
Steve, Thank you very much for highlighting what might be the most taboo subject in the world. Per my extrapolations (based on Tom's embalmers surveys), at least 20 million people in the world have already died with these white fibrous clots in their bodies. Who knows how many are in living people's bodies right now.
The FACT that these grotesque "things" are or have been in the arteries and veins of tens of millions of people should qualify as an issue any real medical scientist would be extremely interested in.
$0 - Dollar amount of NIH grants allocated to study white, fibrous clots.
0 - Number of university or corporate researchers who have studied this issue to date.
0 - Number of corporate, mainstream journalists who have written one story about this issue or published one photo of these substances.
When every American has visited Laura's Substack to read the archive of articles on this taboo subject - and looks at the scores of photos she has published, the world as we know it will change dramatically.
That is, I don't know how any person with a conscience and with an iota of intelligence could look at these things and respond, "Oh, these are no big deal. They are probably good for us."
This should be a very interesting episode tonight. Your audience will learn things that the MSM should report and doesn't. August 3rd, my newsletter: Are you Frustrated? covered Tom Haviland and his information, too. It is very serious, when 27% of those who die from CV-19 vaxxes have been found to have these mysterious fibrous clots in their bodies.
Out of the blue a few days ago, I was informed from a customer where I work, that his brother's friend in FL was "pulling out strange long white clots from the legs of his corpses".
But that this friend was afraid to say anything about it.
Outstanding and well worth the time to listen. It wasn't easy though. Thanks to Wallace Hooker and Tom Haviland for speaking out, and thanks also to Steve and Livio.
"Episode 191: White Fibrous Clots on the Rise!"
Vaccine Safety Research Foundation, Streamed August 21, 2025
https://rumble.com/v6xul8a-episode-191-white-fibrous-clots-on-the-rise.html
TRANSCRIPT — BRIEF EXCERPT
TRANSCRIBER'S NOTE:
- This video is the recorded livestream hosted by Steve Kirsch, founder of the Vaccine Safety Research Foundation, and Livio Sanchez. https://www.vacsafety.org. This is an Internet interview; each participant appears separately on the screen.
- From the show notes:
"Guest Tom Haviland, retired U.S. Air Force Major and independent researcher, who has been tracking the alarming and unprecedented phenomenon: white, fibrous clots discovered during embalming over the past several years... Wallace P. (Wally) Hooker CFSP, MBIE, the owner/funeral director/embalmer of Family & Friends Funeral Home of Wingate, IN."
- The white clots are variously called fibrin clots, fibrinaloid clots, fibrinaloid castings, calamari clots, and amyloid clots.
- Also discussed in this excerpt are "grape jelly" or currant clots, and also chicken fat clots, which, in contrast to the white clots, have been long known to experienced embalmers.
50:07
WALLACE HOOKER: What I find interesting maybe in 2022 I was at the Indiana Coroner's Conference and I was interacting with some forensic pathologists. And I showed them the photos. And just about all of them were dismissive. Didn't want to talk about it. Didn't want to hear about it. And I said, why do you think they're forming? I don't know.
STEVE KIRSCH: Huh huh! Huh huh!
TOM HAVILAND: Now Wally—
STEVE KIRSCH: Intellectual curiosity at its best.
TOM HAVILAND: — Wally, you've never removed a grape jelly clot that was able to hold together that that is that long, right, or or even a chicken fat clot, nothing like that.
WALLACE HOOKER: I can show you a currant jelly clot that's probably the size of, you know, I'll bet it was 6 inches long and as big around as the bottom of a Coke bottle. And this came, this came from a Pentecostal pastor's wife—
TOM HAVILAND: Wow.
WALLACE HOOKER: — who's a funeral director embalmer. None of us have any reason to lie about what we're seeing! That's what disturbs me. We have no agenda. Nobody's paying us to say these things. It's cost me money, it's cost me my reputation to a certain degree. But on the other hand, I had a local guy say, you know, people look up to you because you've taken a stand, you're looking for answers, and maybe you think you've lost business but you might be getting business, too, as a result of how you are.
TOM HAVILAND: Yeah.
WALLACE HOOKER: So, fighting the fight. And when people send me these photos I know we're not in this alone.
Tom HAVILAND: Amen. Now the grape jelly clot you removed that was 6 inches long, did that break up pretty easily? I would think so, right? It's a grape jelly clot.
WALLACE HOOKER: Those do.
TOM HAVILAND: Yeah.
WALLACE HOOKER: Then I had an embalmer send me a photo of a big fibrin clot. It was probably 8 to 10 inches long. And he actually put 5 sets of locking forceps on it and held it up and it didn't break it.
TOM HAVILAND: Wow. Yeah. [inaudible] Richard,[1] he stretched them too, they have pretty good tensile strength and they snap back like a rubber band. They can take a lot of force before they snap. [inaudible] fibrous clots.
52:28
WALLACE HOOKER: I've soaked them in turpentine and it didn't affect them. I've soaked them in straight formaldehyde, it didn't affect them. It changed the color. I've used just rubbing alcohol. Nothing attacked them. So I think once they're in the body, I don't know how they could break down when they're that large.
52:48
TOM HAVILAND: They don't. And from talking to Dr. [inaudible], the, my semi-whistleblower from Jacksonville, Florida, [2] he told me that you know, they, first of all when they get the patient in they try their best clot busting drugs like tissue plasminogen activator, TPA.[3] They work great on grape jelly clots and chicken fat clots. They don't work worth a darn on these white fibrous clots because they're so tough like you're talking about. So then he has to get a little flexible catheter to either suck the clot out, scrape it out, or lasso it and pull it out.
Now what's the largest chicken fat clot you've ever found? Because those have been around before covid.
53:25
WALLACE HOOKER: Those were around, I don't think that they've changed that much.
TOM HAVILAND: How— What's the largest one of those you've ever found?
WALLACE HOOKER: Three to 4 inches. Something like that.
TOM HAVILAND: But they do tear easily?
WALLACE HOOKER: Yes.
LIVIO SANCHEZ: Are you still finding those?
WALLACE HOOKER: Yes. And the currant jelly clots, yeah. The micro clots, yes.
53:47
TOM HAVILAND: And before were the grape jelly clots you mentioned earlier, the embalmers that I've talked to, including Woody Wilson the President of the Ohio Embalmers Association, Woody said that actually, he started seeing when we actually had covid, before we even had the vaccines, his grape jelly clots started becoming a little more like grape jam. They became a little thicker that year, in 2020. But he didn't see any white fibrous clots himself until 2021, after the jabs rolled out. Just like you and Richard Hirschman.
54:13
STEVE KIRSCH: So is there— Since all this has become known, it's been, has there been any significant change in terms of people recognize— Is there anybody anywhere in the world, any health authority anywhere in the world that recognizes this and has said, and has warned people?
TOM HAVILAND: Not to my knowledge, Steve. You know, every year I've had my survey done I've immediately reported the results to the NIH, CDC and FDA[4]. I got a tracking number on my very first survey, I think I sent that to you. But the FDA never contacted me. They had a meeting of their Vaccine and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee, when it was under Peter Marks', you know, direction.
STEVE KIRSCH: Oh Yeah.
TOM HAVILAND: We all know about Peter Marks. His people did not reach out to me at all. So I resubmitted all the [inaudible]—
STEVE KIRSCH: Color me not surprised on that one.
TOM HAVILAND: Yeah. Yeah. That's why we're working hard with Jay Bhattacharya[6] and Bobby's folks[7] and Marty Makary[8] because I'm hoping under this new administration they will start to pay attention to it. And I understand they're dealing with the deep state inside their own organizations. I'm hoping that these new guys at the top that are our allies will get the job done and get them working on this.
55:27
WALLACE HOOKER: You know, you asked, Steve, about people speaking out in the profession. When you look at how Dr. Peter McCullough has been treated, how Brian Ardis has been treated, how Ryan Cole has been treated. Here's people with knowledge and they have the background that these people that were dismissing me were looking for, but yet they go out there and they talk about it, they can substantiate it and back it up, and they're still just being beat up and dismissed.
TOM HAVILAND: And they go after their licenses and board certifications and try to make an example out of them to shut the rest of us up.
LIVIO SANCHEZ: Exactly.
56:04
[END OF EXCERPT]
# # #
Re: Steve posted this story, only four of his 245,000 subscribers - Steve still charging $100 a year membership? - that means for his monthly news he is earning 24 Million 500 Thousand Dollars a year from his substack, this substack, but on monthly posts alone.
Richard - you are assuming all of Steve’s 245,000 subscribers are paid. Only a very small percentage of these subs are paid.
Probably about 3 to 4 percent are paid.
I've had to cut back on most of my paid subscribers to save money, but I was a paid subscriber to Steve's site for years. Unless he's raised his prices big-time, it wasn't $100/year. I was paying $5/month. Steve posts about 20 articles a month, which means I was paying 25 cents per article. I'm now a free subscriber and get all of his content for 0 cents a month.
No, lots of people have free subscriptions And there are various levels of paid.
We need clarity on what the H is going on at HHS ASAP, Mr. Kirsch and other Medical Freedom movement leaders. The politics of MAHA are going south quickly. The anniversary of Kennedy's landmark speech is shaping up to be festival of accusation and bitterness. The GOP and Trumpist leaders ARE OUT OF THEIR HEADS and the base will not be kept in the dark any longer. https://dissidentcon.substack.com/p/what-the-hell-is-going-on-at-hhs
I advertised you, Steve and Tom, in today's Shannon Joy Show live chat!
She is a great voice of truth when it comes to this topic!
I will NOT be eating spaghetti noodles during tonight's show.
Can I get an Amen???
Please watch…
Thank you for investigating the white fibrous clots. Everyone needs to know about this.
Thank you Bill Rice Jr. for bringing this to my attention. I'll be tuning in to this.
Mr. Kirsch: feel free to delete if not acceptable: Tom Haviland and Laura Kasner from Clotastrophy were kind enough to join my podcast UnWoke.Academy on this topic last year. Anyone interested in understanding more in preparation for tonight's special program may enjoy: https://jbroadbent.substack.com/p/unwoke-clotastrophe-with-laura-kasner
Thank you Jonathan, for having the podcast on fibrous clot and for you interest in getting this information to the public.
Thank you, Jonathan, for shouting this from your "rooftop".
Steve Kirsch and Tom Haviland— I am looking forward to watching this— as much as one can look forward to such an squeamish topic. I appreciate your efforts to research and communicate about this urgent issue.
You are a great American!
Maybe it's just me, but it seems strange that a Steve Kirsch Substack post had generated comments from only four readers in two hours. Only one person who commented got more than one "like." Is this topic being censored or shadow-banned? Is Steve's Substack being censored or shadow-banned?
As I keep writing, "freedom of reach" is just as important - maybe more important - than "freedom of speech."
Steve, Thank you very much for highlighting what might be the most taboo subject in the world. Per my extrapolations (based on Tom's embalmers surveys), at least 20 million people in the world have already died with these white fibrous clots in their bodies. Who knows how many are in living people's bodies right now.
The FACT that these grotesque "things" are or have been in the arteries and veins of tens of millions of people should qualify as an issue any real medical scientist would be extremely interested in.
$0 - Dollar amount of NIH grants allocated to study white, fibrous clots.
0 - Number of university or corporate researchers who have studied this issue to date.
0 - Number of corporate, mainstream journalists who have written one story about this issue or published one photo of these substances.
Bill - have you seen this?
https://blog.maryannedemasi.com/cp/171560600
Just read it … good interview and questions but no embalmers’ clots’ questions!
Hope this might be of interest (too dense and technical for me!)
https://open.substack.com/pub/anandamide/p/could-a-hidden-amyloidogenic-peptide?r=2mnu5&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
That is dense, but seems important. Has testing on animals been done?
For those down here in the comments section who don't know, Anandamide is microbiologist Kevin McKernan https://medicinalgenomics.com/team/kevin-mckernan/
He knows his stuff.
I sure did. More reason to believe Retsef Levi was a perfect appointment to the ACIP.
Indeed Kathleen!
You can follow Tom Haviland's work on my Substack:
https://laurakasner.substack.com/
When every American has visited Laura's Substack to read the archive of articles on this taboo subject - and looks at the scores of photos she has published, the world as we know it will change dramatically.
That is, I don't know how any person with a conscience and with an iota of intelligence could look at these things and respond, "Oh, these are no big deal. They are probably good for us."
This should be a very interesting episode tonight. Your audience will learn things that the MSM should report and doesn't. August 3rd, my newsletter: Are you Frustrated? covered Tom Haviland and his information, too. It is very serious, when 27% of those who die from CV-19 vaxxes have been found to have these mysterious fibrous clots in their bodies.
Out of the blue a few days ago, I was informed from a customer where I work, that his brother's friend in FL was "pulling out strange long white clots from the legs of his corpses".
But that this friend was afraid to say anything about it.